I'm no Oxford scholar, (you might have noticed?) but I do have nearly sixty-one year's worth of experience to call upon when faced with a situation which is outside my comfort zone. I read a fantastic post by Jono click here and have made comment, as have many others. Donald Trump is soon to be the most powerful man in the free world - God help us all! First "Brexit" (something which I fully support and am proud to say I voted for - no hiding behind curtains here old mate!) and now America has, apparently, lost it's marbles by voting for a "cretin" (not for the first time in my humble opinion - Ronald Reagan wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box!) and already the educated elite are demonstrating their angst by displaying anti - Trump banners and burning effigies - how very mature? How very anti democracy? The rules were set before the off and the election conducted under these parameters. Everyone involved knew, before the process started, what was required to become president. First past the post, a two horse race - whoever gets the most votes (wins the most states) is the winner! Fairly simple, to understand, for even an "uneducated" twat like me!
So where are we at now? The UK is doing OK, unless you listen to the b(w)ankers who think that money is the sole purpose for our existence - we've not yet triggered our get out clause, but we're also not a washed up economy - we remain the fifth largest on the planet thanks to our basic infrastructure and political stability. Doom and gloom - I've not experienced anything close to it in my little corner of this green and pleasant land.
What is to happen to America, and it's position in global politics, post Barack Obama? I don't know, but neither do you, you or you (if you did you'd be winning the lottery every week!) Quite simply, none of us have the gift of foresight, we must take each step at a time and see where it leads. These are turbulent, some might say troubled?, times - we must now pin our hopes to those which our forebears fought to secure, thus ensuring a "land fit for heroes"
That last sentence is worthy of being made compulsory reading throughout the the 'free' world Dyl.ReplyDelete
I have read through Jono's post several times now. It is obviously very heart-felt, emotional and thought provoking - judging by the number of comments it's received. As it is his opinion, on his blog, I am unwilling to offer a criticism of his understanding of "right and wrong" - good and bad. Therefore I have exercised my right, as an individual, to use this blog to offer my slant on the latest catastrophe to befall the free world. That final sentence just about sums up everything I feel about the self-righteous "educationally elite" and their ridiculous assumption that they always know best! - Dyl
Perhaps your last sentence reflects the last couple of the first paragraph. Yes the rules were set in advance but it wasn't a two-horse race and the winner wasn't who got the most votes. Unfortunately, democracy is not simple.
Maybe I've missed something? Hillary Clinton (the establishment) v's Donald Trump (The Clown Prince) - all those others on the ballot paper were so irrelevant as to be unworthy of attention by the UK media and that of the rest of the World? Thus a two horse race, all others were non-runners. As for splitting hairs about most votes or (as in the US and UK electoral system) the most states/seats - if the result had been reversed, none of these issues would be a concern. The only difference between the Brexit decision of a referendum, and the election of the 45th President of The USA was that all voters had a say in the referendum, only those who voted for Trump or Clinton had any impact on the final outcome in America. It's the same procedure that resulted in President Obama getting elected, twice, so there's nothing fundamentally wrong with process, just the result? Democracy, in whatever guise, is a very simple concept - it is the will of the majority people in whatever system it is involved.
Well in the US your "non-runners" got close to 5% of the popular vote. Hence your definition of democracy goes by the board (in the US) since the majority who cast a vote did not do so for the "winner".Delete
Where are you coming from? 5% for the outsiders means that 95% of votes must have been for the two main protagonists - a two horse race. As for the result not being the choice of the majority - it's exactly the same as happens in the UK. Our government is in no way representative of the electorate, we would require proportional representation for that to become a reality. The USA has made a decision, using the rules that they have formulated - democracy in action!
My point is that your definition of democracy "it is the will of the majority people in whatever system it is involved". As you point out that is not true. At least representative democracy in the UK even without proportional representation means that proposals get properly examined, far better than a referendum where both sides used lies to persuade the electorate, as did of course Trump.Delete
It's not a definition but, instead, my understanding of the concept? I've not "Googled" it for a defining statement or searched "Wikipedia" for some nuance of truth. Democracy, for me, is about freedom and the right to make choices (good or bad) within the system we live. It's not flawless, it's certainly not fair, but it's all we've got! I still prefer this situation to some of the alternatives on offer. We could talk all night - but should agree that we disagree on this particular subject? It will save a lot of wasted effort!
Take care & stay safe - Dylan
The self-righteous "educationally elite" and their ridiculous assumption that they always know best!ReplyDelete
Dyl, I've been upsetting a load of these types elsewhere by simply being rational. Their intolerance and indignation is breathtaking. The main argument appears to be that they and they alone are informed and intelligent enough to make valid voting decisions which are; for want of a better description, more valid than yours are. Least anyone they deem inferior.
I mentioned democracy and co-operation to these people and all I got back was jokes about drinking and taking drugs. But of course they are smarter.
I feel what upsets them the most is that they feel they have lost. It escapes them that referendums and elections aren't a competition like a football match. They feel like they have 'got it wrong'. This really stings like nothing else. They of course have based their entire identity on being right. After all, didn't they pass all their exams and get every job they applied for?
Ha ha, I even changed a nick name on a forum to The Iconoclast.
Not yet posted using it. I haven't dared read the replies to my last efforts of over 24 hours back.
As for normal life. I'll deal with the issues in my own house,work and the road where I live. That covers about 99% of it. The rest I'll worry about if it happens.
I don't have to make an effort to upset people, just being me is enough for some! I fail to recognize people as superior, based upon stigmatized prejudice and exam results. They all need to wash their hair, go shopping and have a piss, just like the rest of us. Money and an assumption that the accumulation of large amounts is a demonstration of a successful and educated individual doesn't cut it with me either. The right to an opinion, however, is something which I am fully supportive. I care not a jot as to how different from mine it is, as long as it is based upon fact and/or experience. I have not lived their lives and they not mine - so it is fully understandable that opinions will be different, completely opposite in some cases.
The rules of a civilized free country allow for all these differences, just a shame that some of those inhabitants are unable to adapt to situations which are at odds to their own - shame!
Been out with the rods lately? All the best - Dyl
I copied this from somewhere:ReplyDelete
"We have to be careful of an anti-democratic response to perfectly legitimate democratic votes. Quite a lot of liberals are saying, 'well, democracy is not working so well because people are voting in a way we don't want them to vote', which strikes me as a supreme irony."
It's the extrapolation of intentions and attitudes via a vote which seems to be getting silly. On one hand, a guy casts a vote because he felt like it, or simply preferred the look of a candidate. And five minutes later is being pilloried and held personally responsible for the destruction of planet earth and the whole of civilisation. The pen might be mightier than the sword, but is nothing compared to an HB pencil.
Fishing. One small chub so far but Ruslip Lido will be attended to soon. I saw a Cormorant with a fairly large Roach so with luck there might be one left.
Cheers - Ric
I'm at a loss to know why you guys are getting so involved/wound up about an election result in America. Will getting involved in spats about it affect your ability to get up in the morning, go to work, go out birdwatching, go out fishing. My main concerns these days are about my immediate way of life, the habitat and wildlife in my area, sod America and whatever idiot is running it, can't be arsed with it.ReplyDelete
I think you'll find that the exchanges and opinions being aired in these comments to be very considered and moderate in comparison to those being posted in other areas of social media. Thinking that the result of the American election will not have repercussions that directly influence your own life is a little naive - but you are quite right that our views are unable to change the result of an American election.
As I choose to express my own opinions, I am happy to exchange comments with anyone who takes the time to offer their own slant on the saga, however different it might be to my own.
Take care mate - Dyl
To put things into perspective, I was more concerned with how a carpet fitter was going to hide a terrible join in a carpet his colleague had laid, than how Trump was going to destroy the world.ReplyDelete
Fear not. The join is invisible. It can be done.
I'm merely grateful that Dyl allows my mutterings to be published on his blog.
It's his game and if he takes the ball back, then tough. But he doesn't.
Richie - there's no point in spitting out the dummy when you've lead the life I've had! I'm more than happy to exchange views with whoever is prepared to read my nonsensical ramblings - they can't be the full shilling either? DylDelete